<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss
version="2.0"
xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
> <channel><title>Comments on: Notes On Fourier Analysis</title> <atom:link href="http://blog.prosig.com/2003/07/29/notes-on-fourier-analysis/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://blog.prosig.com/2003/07/29/notes-on-fourier-analysis/</link> <description>Telling you what you need to know about noise &#38; vibration</description> <lastBuildDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 15:32:30 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator> <item><title>By: Dr Colin Mercer</title><link>http://blog.prosig.com/2003/07/29/notes-on-fourier-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-4534</link> <dc:creator>Dr Colin Mercer</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 09 Nov 2010 13:27:40 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://prosig.com/blog/?p=5#comment-4534</guid> <description>MarcoYou are correct that the Fourier Transform will return the average peak amplitude of each of the frequency components. Remember that the Fourier Transform is speed over positive find negative frequencies. So if, as usual, we only look at the positive frequencies then the amplitude calculated by DATS will be half the amplitude. That is if the Fourier analysis shows say 0.4 then the amplitude in terms of an equivalent sinewave is 0.8.In the examples I used the DATS Moph command. This computes values in terms of modulus and phase (this in the same as some people call amplitude and phase).Generally within DATS if you use the default values for parameters you will get a sensible result. The Moph command asks three questions, all to do with how the phase is calculated. The first question asks about phase limits : zero to 2PI (0 to 360 degrees); +/-PI (-180 to +180 degrees); or phase unwrap. The phase unwrap mode, which I normally use, detects each time the phase crosses the 0 to 2PI (0 to 360 degree) boundary and either adds en subtracts 2PI (360 deg) appropriately. The second question is do you wish to see the phase in radians or degrees, with degrees as the default.The third question is more technical and if you are unsure use the default of 80dB, as I do 99% of the time. What this question is about is handling the situation when the individual real and imaginary are small as the phase at each frequency comes from arctan(imaginary/real). Now with acquired data if there is no meaningful energy at a frequency then both the real and the imaginary parts will be small and basically act like random noise. This causes the phase to jump around like no tomorrow. Setting the value to zero will turn it off, but generally making it smaller than 80 will make it more severe (less phase noise).</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marco</p><p>You are correct that the Fourier Transform will return the average peak amplitude of each of the frequency components. Remember that the Fourier Transform is speed over positive find negative frequencies. So if, as usual, we only look at the positive frequencies then the amplitude calculated by DATS will be half the amplitude. That is if the Fourier analysis shows say 0.4 then the amplitude in terms of an equivalent sinewave is 0.8.</p><p>In the examples I used the DATS Moph command. This computes values in terms of modulus and phase (this in the same as some people call amplitude and phase).</p><p>Generally within DATS if you use the default values for parameters you will get a sensible result. The Moph command asks three questions, all to do with how the phase is calculated. The first question asks about phase limits : zero to 2PI (0 to 360 degrees); +/-PI (-180 to +180 degrees); or phase unwrap. The phase unwrap mode, which I normally use, detects each time the phase crosses the 0 to 2PI (0 to 360 degree) boundary and either adds en subtracts 2PI (360 deg) appropriately. The second question is do you wish to see the phase in radians or degrees, with degrees as the default.</p><p>The third question is more technical and if you are unsure use the default of 80dB, as I do 99% of the time. What this question is about is handling the situation when the individual real and imaginary are small as the phase at each frequency comes from arctan(imaginary/real). Now with acquired data if there is no meaningful energy at a frequency then both the real and the imaginary parts will be small and basically act like random noise. This causes the phase to jump around like no tomorrow. Setting the value to zero will turn it off, but generally making it smaller than 80 will make it more severe (less phase noise).</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: marco clark</title><link>http://blog.prosig.com/2003/07/29/notes-on-fourier-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-4459</link> <dc:creator>marco clark</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2010 19:10:12 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://prosig.com/blog/?p=5#comment-4459</guid> <description>I&#039;ve tried doing some FFT&#039;s to get average data but have been confounded by the fact that there&#039;s many FFT commands in DATS and when I&#039;ve tried there&#039;s been question asked by the commands that I could not answer.  Can you give the specific commands that you&#039;ve used for your examples and if possible give me a solution for mine (My data reapeats at 3 frequencies and I want to get the average height at which the data repeats... Seems like and FFT would do that but I can&#039;t get the right command)</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve tried doing some FFT&#8217;s to get average data but have been confounded by the fact that there&#8217;s many FFT commands in DATS and when I&#8217;ve tried there&#8217;s been question asked by the commands that I could not answer.  Can you give the specific commands that you&#8217;ve used for your examples and if possible give me a solution for mine (My data reapeats at 3 frequencies and I want to get the average height at which the data repeats&#8230; Seems like and FFT would do that but I can&#8217;t get the right command)</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Dr Colin Mercer</title><link>http://blog.prosig.com/2003/07/29/notes-on-fourier-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-2132</link> <dc:creator>Dr Colin Mercer</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 15:23:44 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://prosig.com/blog/?p=5#comment-2132</guid> <description>Hi
The Fourier Transform handles all frequencies simultaneously. In a simple way you can think of it as a large number of parallel filters all working at the same time. If you have the Fourier transformed result in modulus &amp; phase form then multiply the modulus by omega squared and negate the phase. You now have the displacement spectrum.Why restrict to first mode? Do you know its frequency?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi<br
/> The Fourier Transform handles all frequencies simultaneously. In a simple way you can think of it as a large number of parallel filters all working at the same time. If you have the Fourier transformed result in modulus &amp; phase form then multiply the modulus by omega squared and negate the phase. You now have the displacement spectrum.</p><p>Why restrict to first mode? Do you know its frequency?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Le Huang</title><link>http://blog.prosig.com/2003/07/29/notes-on-fourier-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-2127</link> <dc:creator>Le Huang</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 06:44:27 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://prosig.com/blog/?p=5#comment-2127</guid> <description>Dear Dr.Colin Mercer:
I am a graduate student, and i am working on bridge cable vibration analysis. I use accelerometer to capture acceleration data on specify location on cable. I need to convert acceleration to displacement. I was using double integration, but its hard to tell the reliability of my results. I am interesting in your post about Fourier Analysis, but my background in digital processing is very low at the moment. Since my signal data contain different modes of frequencies. How can I apply Fourier Transform if I just want the first mode data and convert acceleration time histroy to displacement time history?? My email is huanglehuangle@gmail.com. If you could send me a reply in email i will send you one set of my experimental data and explain what I really want. BTW, thanks for information provided above, its very fresh information to me.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Dr.Colin Mercer:<br
/> I am a graduate student, and i am working on bridge cable vibration analysis. I use accelerometer to capture acceleration data on specify location on cable. I need to convert acceleration to displacement. I was using double integration, but its hard to tell the reliability of my results. I am interesting in your post about Fourier Analysis, but my background in digital processing is very low at the moment. Since my signal data contain different modes of frequencies. How can I apply Fourier Transform if I just want the first mode data and convert acceleration time histroy to displacement time history?? My email is <a
href="mailto:huanglehuangle@gmail.com">huanglehuangle@gmail.com</a>. If you could send me a reply in email i will send you one set of my experimental data and explain what I really want. BTW, thanks for information provided above, its very fresh information to me.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: 10 Great Fourier Transform Links &#171; Prosig Noise &#38; Vibration Blog</title><link>http://blog.prosig.com/2003/07/29/notes-on-fourier-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-674</link> <dc:creator>10 Great Fourier Transform Links &#171; Prosig Noise &#38; Vibration Blog</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 31 Mar 2010 12:03:28 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://prosig.com/blog/?p=5#comment-674</guid> <description>[...] 1. Notes On Fourier Analysis [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 1. Notes On Fourier Analysis [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Abiye</title><link>http://blog.prosig.com/2003/07/29/notes-on-fourier-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-621</link> <dc:creator>Abiye</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 23:32:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://prosig.com/blog/?p=5#comment-621</guid> <description>What a wonderful presentation.
Very elaborate, clear and articulate.
You really deserve the very best.Abiye Zerfu</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a wonderful presentation.<br
/> Very elaborate, clear and articulate.<br
/> You really deserve the very best.</p><p>Abiye Zerfu</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Essuman Bassaw</title><link>http://blog.prosig.com/2003/07/29/notes-on-fourier-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-484</link> <dc:creator>Essuman Bassaw</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:46:01 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://prosig.com/blog/?p=5#comment-484</guid> <description>i am instructor in KOFORIDUA POLYTECHNIC GHANA WILL LIKE YOU TO E-MAIL ME WITH PROJECT DESIGN ON THE AREAS OF APPLICATION ON DSP</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i am instructor in KOFORIDUA POLYTECHNIC GHANA WILL LIKE YOU TO E-MAIL ME WITH PROJECT DESIGN ON THE AREAS OF APPLICATION ON DSP</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: eshetu admasu mengistu</title><link>http://blog.prosig.com/2003/07/29/notes-on-fourier-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-473</link> <dc:creator>eshetu admasu mengistu</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 08:28:52 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://prosig.com/blog/?p=5#comment-473</guid> <description>hi it is nice can u give me more on z fourier analysis ,i am working on DSP.with this email . sht_admsu@yahoo.com</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi it is nice can u give me more on z fourier analysis ,i am working on DSP.with this email . <a
href="mailto:sht_admsu@yahoo.com">sht_admsu@yahoo.com</a></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Colin</title><link>http://blog.prosig.com/2003/07/29/notes-on-fourier-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-268</link> <dc:creator>Colin</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:35:24 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://prosig.com/blog/?p=5#comment-268</guid> <description>James,
There are multiple reasons for a phase jump. First of course we ignore those phase jumps that occur when one plots phase on say a 0 to 360 degree plot (or -180 to 180 or similar) that are &quot;wrapping&quot; around.   Actually I often plot on the phase unwrap basis to get an overall idea.The classical reason for a phase &quot;jump&quot; is that one is passing thpartrough a resonance in that frequency range. This should be accompanied by an increase in the amplitude.  If you have truncated your transient then the sharp stop will cause some phase changes as the Fourier transform has to fit this really rapid amplitude change. Such a change way be small in amplitude but could be quite significant in phase change.Now the phase at each frequency is determined by the inverse tangent of the imaginary part of the Fourier component at that frequency divided by the corresponding real part. For reference the real front is the cosine coefficient and the imaginary part is the sine coefficient. If over some frequency region the real and imaginary parts are small and are fluctuating around zero then because we use their ratio in finding the phase  then clearly the phase will also fluctuate wildly.  Basically then if the amplitude, which is the square root of the sum of the real part squared and the imaginary part squared, is small then the phase is not reliable in a real system where we have &#039;noise&#039; present.  In deed if it is only the real part that is small and is fluctuating do to noise, then one can have large phase changes.It is away useful if in doubt to look at the real and imaginary parts. Also try looking at a vector plot of Real versus Imaginary as this can be most  instructive.Colin</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James,<br
/> There are multiple reasons for a phase jump. First of course we ignore those phase jumps that occur when one plots phase on say a 0 to 360 degree plot (or -180 to 180 or similar) that are &#8220;wrapping&#8221; around.   Actually I often plot on the phase unwrap basis to get an overall idea.</p><p>The classical reason for a phase &#8220;jump&#8221; is that one is passing thpartrough a resonance in that frequency range. This should be accompanied by an increase in the amplitude.  If you have truncated your transient then the sharp stop will cause some phase changes as the Fourier transform has to fit this really rapid amplitude change. Such a change way be small in amplitude but could be quite significant in phase change.</p><p>Now the phase at each frequency is determined by the inverse tangent of the imaginary part of the Fourier component at that frequency divided by the corresponding real part. For reference the real front is the cosine coefficient and the imaginary part is the sine coefficient. If over some frequency region the real and imaginary parts are small and are fluctuating around zero then because we use their ratio in finding the phase  then clearly the phase will also fluctuate wildly.  Basically then if the amplitude, which is the square root of the sum of the real part squared and the imaginary part squared, is small then the phase is not reliable in a real system where we have &#8216;noise&#8217; present.  In deed if it is only the real part that is small and is fluctuating do to noise, then one can have large phase changes.</p><p>It is away useful if in doubt to look at the real and imaginary parts. Also try looking at a vector plot of Real versus Imaginary as this can be most  instructive.</p><p>Colin</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: James</title><link>http://blog.prosig.com/2003/07/29/notes-on-fourier-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-265</link> <dc:creator>James</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:13:17 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://prosig.com/blog/?p=5#comment-265</guid> <description>Dr. Mercer,I&#039;m curious about the significance of the frequency (or range thereof) which the phase jump occurs. I have transients (not sinusoidal) showing a lot of phase jumps and I am trying to interpret what these frequencies mean.Thanks,
James.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Mercer,</p><p>I&#8217;m curious about the significance of the frequency (or range thereof) which the phase jump occurs. I have transients (not sinusoidal) showing a lot of phase jumps and I am trying to interpret what these frequencies mean.</p><p>Thanks,<br
/> James.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Colin Mercer</title><link>http://blog.prosig.com/2003/07/29/notes-on-fourier-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-139</link> <dc:creator>Colin Mercer</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:48:58 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://prosig.com/blog/?p=5#comment-139</guid> <description>Hi Mehdi
the very last equation in 1-6 above article shows how the original signal may be reconstituted from  the Found coefficients. In a crude sense if the real and imaginary components at frequency f are ak and bk respectively then the modulus of the &quot;equivalent&quot; cosine wave at frequency f is sqrt(ak*ak + bk*bk). In a crude sense this is the &quot;amplitude&quot; at frequency f.But beware with real life signals only use this as a simple model to aid understanding.Colin</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mehdi<br
/> the very last equation in 1-6 above article shows how the original signal may be reconstituted from  the Found coefficients. In a crude sense if the real and imaginary components at frequency f are ak and bk respectively then the modulus of the &#8220;equivalent&#8221; cosine wave at frequency f is sqrt(ak*ak + bk*bk). In a crude sense this is the &#8220;amplitude&#8221; at frequency f.</p><p>But beware with real life signals only use this as a simple model to aid understanding.</p><p>Colin</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Colin Mercer</title><link>http://blog.prosig.com/2003/07/29/notes-on-fourier-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-137</link> <dc:creator>Colin Mercer</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:38:43 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://prosig.com/blog/?p=5#comment-137</guid> <description>Hi Benjamin
Where to begin? NVH is a wide subject in itself. One could be involved with a gearbox whine,  with a rattle somewhere, a shaft out of balance causing some vibration, a structural resonance or one of the large number of sound quality measures (loudness, sharpness, ...).  The basic common starting point however is that we nearly always consider these matters on a  frequency basis.  That is you need to be comfortable with the concept of transforming the time signal into the corresponding frequency signal by using a Fourier transform.   The actual mechanics of the Fourier transform are not intrinsically important in the understanding of NVH, but the limitations and assumptions are very important.  So I have just gathered together a few notes below about interpretation.
1. Frequency and time are inversely proportional.   Thus if we have a signal of length T seconds  then the raw frequency resolution is (1/T)Hz.2. Fourier Transforms may be inverse transformed back from frequency to time.  This means that we have no extra information, way just have a different representation  which we may understand better.   It also means that if we have a time signal that has some random data in it then the Fourier Transformed signal also has some random element in the Fourier coefficients.  This usually means we have to average the Fourier transformed data, not directly but as a modulus squared.  This leads us to spectral densities and spectrum levels.3.  The act of Fourier transforming a finite length of the time signal causes leakage of information into adjacent frequencies.   This brings us into the domain of data windows that are designed to minimise these  effects.   Whilst minimising the leakage of information from one frequency to others, using a data window means that the frequency resolution is made  larger.  If in doubt use a Hanning window.4. Frequency resolution is not the same as Frequency separations (or steps). That  is we may form estimates of the Fourier coefficients at frequency steps of say  df Hz  but the frequency resolution may be dF Hz, where dF &gt; df .5.  When we use a finite length of data and Fourier analyse it then each coefficient is an &#039;average&#039; over the resolution dF. We may liken the Fourier transform to passing the time signal  through a series of narrow band filters each of width dF Hz but spaced  df Hz apart, that is the filters overlap each other.Hope these help, there is no magic bullet - just a lot of  work, time and effort trying to understand.Colin</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Benjamin<br
/> Where to begin? NVH is a wide subject in itself. One could be involved with a gearbox whine,  with a rattle somewhere, a shaft out of balance causing some vibration, a structural resonance or one of the large number of sound quality measures (loudness, sharpness, &#8230;).  The basic common starting point however is that we nearly always consider these matters on a  frequency basis.  That is you need to be comfortable with the concept of transforming the time signal into the corresponding frequency signal by using a Fourier transform.   The actual mechanics of the Fourier transform are not intrinsically important in the understanding of NVH, but the limitations and assumptions are very important.  So I have just gathered together a few notes below about interpretation.</p><p>1. Frequency and time are inversely proportional.   Thus if we have a signal of length T seconds  then the raw frequency resolution is (1/T)Hz.</p><p>2. Fourier Transforms may be inverse transformed back from frequency to time.  This means that we have no extra information, way just have a different representation  which we may understand better.   It also means that if we have a time signal that has some random data in it then the Fourier Transformed signal also has some random element in the Fourier coefficients.  This usually means we have to average the Fourier transformed data, not directly but as a modulus squared.  This leads us to spectral densities and spectrum levels.</p><p>3.  The act of Fourier transforming a finite length of the time signal causes leakage of information into adjacent frequencies.   This brings us into the domain of data windows that are designed to minimise these  effects.   Whilst minimising the leakage of information from one frequency to others, using a data window means that the frequency resolution is made  larger.  If in doubt use a Hanning window.</p><p>4. Frequency resolution is not the same as Frequency separations (or steps). That  is we may form estimates of the Fourier coefficients at frequency steps of say  df Hz  but the frequency resolution may be dF Hz, where dF &gt; df .</p><p>5.  When we use a finite length of data and Fourier analyse it then each coefficient is an &#8216;average&#8217; over the resolution dF. We may liken the Fourier transform to passing the time signal  through a series of narrow band filters each of width dF Hz but spaced  df Hz apart, that is the filters overlap each other.</p><p>Hope these help, there is no magic bullet &#8211; just a lot of  work, time and effort trying to understand.</p><p>Colin</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: mehdi</title><link>http://blog.prosig.com/2003/07/29/notes-on-fourier-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-133</link> <dc:creator>mehdi</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:07:11 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://prosig.com/blog/?p=5#comment-133</guid> <description>dear sir;
how can earn orginal signal amplitude from fft cofficient.
would you send me some informaton about this relation.best regard</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dear sir;<br
/> how can earn orginal signal amplitude from fft cofficient.<br
/> would you send me some informaton about this relation.</p><p>best regard</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Benjamin Cao</title><link>http://blog.prosig.com/2003/07/29/notes-on-fourier-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-85</link> <dc:creator>Benjamin Cao</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 07:24:02 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://prosig.com/blog/?p=5#comment-85</guid> <description>Hello Dr Colin Mercer,
Thanks for your papers, they helped me a lot.
I&#039;m a beginner in NVH area, and I am going to work mainly on vehicle NVH test.
I had some difficulties when reading your articles because of my lack of background knowledge.
Could you please send me some basic knowledge materials?
Thanks a lot!</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Dr Colin Mercer,<br
/> Thanks for your papers, they helped me a lot.<br
/> I&#8217;m a beginner in NVH area, and I am going to work mainly on vehicle NVH test.<br
/> I had some difficulties when reading your articles because of my lack of background knowledge.<br
/> Could you please send me some basic knowledge materials?<br
/> Thanks a lot!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
<!-- Served from: blog.prosig.com @ 2012-02-07 21:41:31 by W3 Total Cache -->
